Topic: Make no mistake...

[Caruthers612]

     Our country's current malaise and decline, the sly and ceaseless destruction of ever more of the mechanisms that have traditionally made us the wealthiest, most free and prosperous and powerful of nations, is deliberate.

     With these few words, I have opened the grandest of kettles of fish. I do so in hopes of eliciting a discussion participated in by all here, thoughts and ideas contributed and exchanged.

    This is as deep, as far-reaching and all-encompassing a subject as there is, once properly understood; at its heart, though, is what naturally at first seems ludicrous and surely impossible, the stuff of conspiracy theory--that a sort of uber elite, some known to us, some not, having attained that lofty height only dreamt of by the madmen of previous generations, have now initiated the systematic ruination of first our own civilization, and thence the world's.

       Their goal? The only too familiar one, achieved only in limited degree by their monomaniac predecessors (i.e., geographically speaking--the Soviet Empire and its domination of the eastern bloc, China's communist revolution expanding to its extent, the Third Reich's conquest) --the reduction of the populace to a state of such poverty and desperation that said populace will at last surrender all rights and freedoms in return for the promise of a chicken in every pot. This time round, though, and largely without a shot being fired, our would-be new masters may well succeed where earlier attempts failed, all the world falling, for all intents and purposes, to their control. The reasons why this is possible for the first time and the methods employed are a central discussion in itself.

      Why start with America? Isn't it obvious? If there were one country which, traditionally, possessed the power and resources to stop all such attempted conquests, able to bring Nazis and communist empires alike to their knees, it is ours. With America out of the way, having been bankrupted in every sense, hobbled from within and without, no obstacle will remain to those who, through control of the world's financial networks, the use of ever more frightening technology, and various other means, will finally be within earshot of achieving that oldest of madman's dreams: world domination.

M

[Michael Vandeven]

an intriguing thread, the replies to which surely will be equally intriguing.  when i have some free time, i shall join in.

[11angeleyes11]

     Our country's current malaise and decline, the sly and ceaseless destruction of ever more of the mechanisms that have traditionally made us the wealthiest, most free and prosperous and powerful of nations, is deliberate.

     With these few words, I have opened the grandest of kettles of fish. I do so in hopes of eliciting a discussion participated in by all here, thoughts and ideas contributed and exchanged.

    This is as deep, as far-reaching and all-encompassing a subject as there is, once properly understood; at its heart, though, is what naturally at first seems ludicrous and surely impossible, the stuff of conspiracy theory--that a sort of uber elite, some known to us, some not, having attained that lofty height only dreamt of by the madmen of previous generations, have now initiated the systematic ruination of first our own civilization, and thence the world's.

       Their goal? The only too familiar one, achieved only in limited degree by their monomaniac predecessors (i.e., geographically speaking--the Soviet Empire and its domination of the eastern bloc, China's communist revolution expanding to its extent, the Third Reich's conquest) --the reduction of the populace to a state of such poverty and desperation that said populace will at last surrender all rights and freedoms in return for the promise of a chicken in every pot. This time round, though, and largely without a shot being fired, our would-be new masters may well succeed where earlier attempts failed, all the world falling, for all intents and purposes, to their control. The reasons why this is possible for the first time and the methods employed are a central discussion in itself.

      Why start with America? Isn't it obvious? If there were one country which, traditionally, possessed the power and resources to stop all such attempted conquests, able to bring Nazis and communist empires alike to their knees, it is ours. With America out of the way, having been bankrupted in every sense, hobbled from within and without, no obstacle will remain to those who, through control of the world's financial networks, the use of ever more frightening technology, and various other means, will finally be within earshot of achieving that oldest of madman's dreams: world domination.

M

Unfortunatley, I am in the middle of reseaching another topic and just stopped in to check the site.  This is a good topic and like MV commented, I would like to comment deeper in response to your heartfelt and intelectually intruiguing introduction. 
 
My response right now, is that I think it is happening as I type this.  Every decision that is being made, many bills are being passed, every stroke of a pen by the President signing off on some of the applicable bills are just steps being made.  The sad note on this is the majority of Americans do not see the deeper implications. 
 
Health care is just one of the hot topics of debate. How much of our economy is health care driven?  To give the government complete control is to give them a ticket to the surrendering of our freedom and personal choices.  These are just a few comments.
 
Tying it in to Coast, is that the role of the alleged "dumbing down of Coast", to give Joe and Mary American some understanding of the economic forces driving the New World Order?  There is so much criticism of the simplication of the subject matter presentation.  This may be part of their scheme and presentation secrets.  Again this is just another side to be presented.  I will be checking back in on your thread, as I lurk. 

[RecoveringNoorholic]

     Our country's current malaise and decline, the sly and ceaseless destruction of ever more of the mechanisms that have traditionally made us the wealthiest, most free and prosperous and powerful of nations, is deliberate.

     With these few words, I have opened the grandest of kettles of fish. I do so in hopes of eliciting a discussion participated in by all here, thoughts and ideas contributed and exchanged.

    This is as deep, as far-reaching and all-encompassing a subject as there is, once properly understood; at its heart, though, is what naturally at first seems ludicrous and surely impossible, the stuff of conspiracy theory--that a sort of uber elite, some known to us, some not, having attained that lofty height only dreamt of by the madmen of previous generations, have now initiated the systematic ruination of first our own civilization, and thence the world's.

       Their goal? The only too familiar one, achieved only in limited degree by their monomaniac predecessors (i.e., geographically speaking--the Soviet Empire and its domination of the eastern bloc, China's communist revolution expanding to its extent, the Third Reich's conquest) --the reduction of the populace to a state of such poverty and desperation that said populace will at last surrender all rights and freedoms in return for the promise of a chicken in every pot. This time round, though, and largely without a shot being fired, our would-be new masters may well succeed where earlier attempts failed, all the world falling, for all intents and purposes, to their control. The reasons why this is possible for the first time and the methods employed are a central discussion in itself.

      Why start with America? Isn't it obvious? If there were one country which, traditionally, possessed the power and resources to stop all such attempted conquests, able to bring Nazis and communist empires alike to their knees, it is ours. With America out of the way, having been bankrupted in every sense, hobbled from within and without, no obstacle will remain to those who, through control of the world's financial networks, the use of ever more frightening technology, and various other means, will finally be within earshot of achieving that oldest of madman's dreams: world domination.

M

I have to disagree strongly with the premise that a cabal is seeking to destroy the American economy. Before I do that, though, I think that this idea will quickly, as the finances of the United States continue their death spiral, gain increasing traction and swiftly move from the sidelines to the mainstream.

Humans, Americans included, don't like to shoulder the blame for anything generally - catastrophes specifically. All that has been, and all that will be, is the fault of the American people. I don't have the exact quote in front of me so I'm very roughly paraphrasing Robert Heinlein who said:

All governments are representative governments by virtue of the fact that they remain in power. The Nazis were a representative government. The German people decided it was easier to turn control over to a group of thugs than govern themselves.

The end that is about to come will be the fault of the citizens of this country. Some, though, may not be comfortable accepting blame and will seek to shift it to the shadows of a conspiracy that exist only in fantasy. 

[Michael Vandeven]

All governments are representative governments by virtue of the fact that they remain in power. The Nazis were a representative government. The German people decided it was easier to turn control over to a group of thugs than govern themselves.

The end that is about to come will be the fault of the citizens of this country. Some, though, may not be comfortable accepting blame and will seek to shift it to the shadows of a conspiracy that exist only in fantasy.

i agree in large part with this philosophy.  i've always felt like people get the government they deserve.  it's why i didn't feel particularly sorry for the iraqis living under saddam, and i don't lose sleep over the plight of the north koreans under kim jong il.  i can at least respect the iranians who are giving their shit government a hard time, but the people in iran who are protesting are only one generation removed from those responsible for the very oppression they're living under today.

[Caruthers612]

       Sadly, at the moment, I don't have time to write much. I simply wanted to acknowledge the truly wonderful and thoughtful replies that have been posted, and to note that this is just what I'd hoped for. You are all very bright people whose deeply perceptive posts I look forward to sharing my responses to. One thing's for sure, CoastGab has no shortage of "the right people". ;-)

M

[Tom from Hong Kong]

What is happening in the U.S. -- by design or otherwise -- is the gradual and progressive de-sensitization of the population.  People are educated enough to work and accumulate some wealth, but are not taught critical thinking skills or encouraged to be non-conformists (go to college? well then, you have to join the tri-Delt sorority where you need to fit in . . . ).  If you combine this with the power of money over the political machine and the power of the marketing class over the media, you can get anyone to do anything you want.  Witness Bush's election (twice) and the war in Iraq (I am a Republican saying this!).  On top of all this, add to the deterioration in civic-mindedness among the population (what is in it for me?), and there you go!

Anyone interested in this topic should start by reading William Domhoff's Who Rules America? and C. Wright Mills' The Power Elite.  They are a little dated but a good place to start. I think Domhoff has updated his book on several occasions, and surely there are younger political scientists and sociologists who have taken up the banner.

Enough ranting on my behalf . . . I am going to go watch The Housewives of Orange County now.

[RecoveringNoorholic]

What is happening in the U.S. -- by design or otherwise -- is the gradual and progressive de-sensitization of the population.  People are educated enough to work and accumulate some wealth, but are not taught critical thinking skills or encouraged to be non-conformists (go to college? well then, you have to join the tri-Delt sorority where you need to fit in . . . ).  If you combine this with the power of money over the political machine and the power of the marketing class over the media, you can get anyone to do anything you want.  Witness Bush's election (twice) and the war in Iraq (I am a Republican saying this!).  On top of all this, add to the deterioration in civic-mindedness among the population (what is in it for me?), and there you go!

Anyone interested in this topic should start by reading William Domhoff's Who Rules America? and C. Wright Mills' The Power Elite.  They are a little dated but a good place to start. I think Domhoff has updated his book on several occasions, and surely there are younger political scientists and sociologists who have taken up the banner.

Enough ranting on my behalf . . . I am going to go watch The Housewives of Orange County now.

An erudite and well-formed missive, even if I don't necessarily agree with every point. However, your last sentence was the perfect cap to your post!

I'm curious what people would identify as a solution to these problems that everyone, so far in this thread, seems to commonly agree exist? On some - more proletarian - boards, like abovetopsecret.com, there are plenty of people who dully proclaim "we need to get back to the constitution" etc. Everyone is rich in vagaries and poor in specifics.

[11angeleyes11]

Okay, here are a few inexpensive suggestions, read, listen become informed.  That costs nothing.  Discuss the subjects in conversation and spread the word.  If you want, blog,  express your opinion on the radio.  Write your Congresspeople and Senators. 
 
Vote, yes vote.  Know the candidates that hold those values you want in place and support them.  Voting costs nothing.  Learning costs nothing.
 
You can volunteer to support those people or you can run for office yourself.  That becomes more time and money intensive, but it is another option.  Look, in my opinon if Sarah Paline can get on the ticket, then the United States is sitll the county of endless opportunity for anyone. That illustrates it.

[RecoveringNoorholic]

Okay, here are a few inexpensive suggestions, read, listen become informed.  That costs nothing.  Discuss the subjects in conversation and spread the word.  If you want, blog,  express your opinion on the radio.  Write your Congresspeople and Senators. 
 
Vote, yes vote.  Know the candidates that hold those values you want in place and support them.  Voting costs nothing.  Learning costs nothing.
 
You can volunteer to support those people or you can run for office yourself.  That becomes more time and money intensive, but it is another option.  Look, in my opinon if Sarah Paline can get on the ticket, then the United States is sitll the county of endless opportunity for anyone. That illustrates it.

Good suggestions, however, presumably everyone complaining about the problem - at least in this thread - already votes and reads and yet the problem persists, presumably because the great, unwashed masses don't.

I know I'll be the bad guy on this one, however, my personal opinion is that the problem is democracy itself. The word "democracy" has been co-opted to equal "good" so that, if something is "democratic" it has inherent morality and justification. In the words of the great H.L. Mencken:

I have alluded somewhat vaguely to the merits of democracy. One of them is  quite obvious: it is, perhaps, the most charming form of government ever   devised by man. The reason is not far to seek. It is based upon propositions   that are palpably not true and what is not true, as everyone knows, is always   immensely more fascinating and satisfying to the vast majority of men than   what is true. Truth has a harshness that alarms them, and an air of finality   that collides with their incurable romanticism.

 

I'm not Muslim but I have a - and this is why I say I'm going to be the bad guy - soft spot in my heart for the governing apparatus of Iran in nature, though perhaps not in practice. It is based on the idea of a transcendent, supra-human truth that legitimizes the existence of the state; not a simple social contract in which truth and fiction are open to definition and redefinition every few years.

[11angeleyes11]

Good suggestions, however, presumably everyone complaining about the problem - at least in this thread - already votes and reads and yet the problem persists, presumably because the great, unwashed masses don't.

I know I'll be the bad guy on this one, however, my personal opinion is that the problem is democracy itself. The word "democracy" has been co-opted to equal "good" so that, if something is "democratic" it has inherent morality and justification. In the words of the great H.L. Mencken:

I have alluded somewhat vaguely to the merits of democracy. One of them is  quite obvious: it is, perhaps, the most charming form of government ever   devised by man. The reason is not far to seek. It is based upon propositions   that are palpably not true and what is not true, as everyone knows, is always   immensely more fascinating and satisfying to the vast majority of men than   what is true. Truth has a harshness that alarms them, and an air of finality   that collides with their incurable romanticism.  

  I'm not Muslim but I have a - and this is why I say I'm going to be the bad guy - soft spot in my heart for the governing apparatus of Iran in nature, though perhaps not in practice. It is based on the idea of a transcendent, supra-human truth that legitimizes the existence of the state; not a simple social contract in which truth and fiction are open to definition and redefinition every few years.

You can be the bad guy, if you must, however I like your quote, it made me think, and for that I have learned another opinioin.  Ahhh, but to have the truth, we must be able to articulate the truth, and that is not done by so many in positions of power.  That also applies to other relationships.  What if that supra-human truth is a deceit? 
 
I really like that quote, the last sentence, Truth has a harshness that alarms them, and an air of finality that collides with their incurable romanticism.  I take that with skepticsm, however, when the truth, is not told, it is spun, and violated in a cover your ass mentality oftentimes by members of our society.

[RecoveringNoorholic]

You can be the bad guy, if you must, however I like your quote, it made me think, and for that I have learned another opinioin.  Ahhh, but to have the truth, we must be able to articulate the truth, and that is not done by so many in positions of power.  That also applies to other relationships.  What if that supra-human truth is a deceit? 
 
I really like that quote, the last sentence, Truth has a harshness that alarms them, and an air of finality that collides with their incurable romanticism.  I take that with skepticsm, however, when the truth, is not told, it is spun, and violated in a cover your ass mentality oftentimes by members of our society.

An excellent and erudite point!

I think the reality of Truth is less important than the idea of "a" Truth.

In our current democratic rot we accept that there is no Truth, just a conflict of visions. In Iran, there is an undeniable (literally, undeniable, under penalty of law) Truth. Whether or not the Truth is true, is probably not that important, IMO. A state that doesn't accept it has some transcendent, immutable aspect to it is simply an armed social club. This is what the United States has devolved into, IMO.