Topic: Noory Dosen't EXACTLY Suck -

[EvB]

IMO - it's more like he just such a disappointment in contrast to Art and Ian. The later two seem honestly engaged in what they are doing, genuine, sincere.  Ol' Georegy-Boy is just such a performer. He also interups with tangential comments that even he doesn't seem interested in. 

Example:  resent show on the Nazi Bell  ---  The guest was making the point that the Germans had been messing with some pretty advanced physics, and that the result had given rise to rumors that they had captured a UFO. The point the GUEST was making, it seemed to me, was that evil as they were the 3rd Reich had some pretty hot shot scientists (he even mentioned some of the TERRESTRIAL theories that their work may have been based on.)  Noorey - in this very artificial sounding voice of - errr - excitement I guess - interrupted with "Ohhh, was it possible they CAPTURED a UFO and were reverse engineering!?"   

His comment was so off the point - and interrupted a guest who was doing fine on his own.

I'm trying not to totally hate GN - since I do enjoy C2C and - well - we seem to be stuck with Georgy-boy given the recent announcements that his new contract was "virtually forever."

[VictoriaPandora]

I used to pay the money and download the show every day, once I figured out it was actually ruining my mood EVERY single day I wised up.
George is constantly asserting his own populairty and it kind of gives you that same feeling you get when Bush throws a ball and you know everyone is booing but applause has been dubbed over it.
I sent Mike about ten of those "nooryisms" taken exclusively from the last show I ever listened to. Seriously, one could write a small book after three or four shows, haha.
Clear Chanel is never gonna tell us anything we need to know anyway.

[slipstream]

I used to pay the money and download the show every day, once I figured out it was actually ruining my mood EVERY single day I wised up.

 
           Do you mean that listening to Noory's dumb sayings was making you in a bad mood?  Are you sure it wasn't having to pay to listen to something that was free over the air?  Maybe both 

P.S. Maybe this thread should be put into the dislike Noory section.  


-edit- made my language clear, hopefully.

[ArtBellFan]

I tried to listen to sNoory twice when he first filled in for Art......and have not heard one show since, I commend anyone who can, takes a lot of guts.

[Michael Vandeven]

I commend anyone who can, takes a lot of guts.

this is the second time in 5 minutes a post i have read has caused me to guffaw.  i believe this message board is going to keep my blood pressure low.

[ArtBellFan]

That is what I am here to do...........low blood pressure is good.

[sillydog]

He's supposed to be a professional broadcaster.  My dog could do a better job.  I'm callin' SUCK on that.

I mean, he was given the most popular late night show ever and he has run it into the ground, causing the audience to get dumber by a factor of about 20, since only crazies and the senile can't tell how stupid he is.  All the clever folks only show up for Art or Knapp nights. 

George's conduct with the show is like someone who can be angry while petting puppies -- it shouldn't be possible, but there he is.  The paranormal should sell itself.  This guy couldn't sell crack in Compton.  He's dumber than a yoghurt.

[Michael Vandeven]

I'm callin' SUCK on that.

haha

[techster]

I'll admit it.  I listen.  I don't listen because I like George.  I listen for the guests, which sometimes are not half bad.  Of course it goes without saying that it's never anywhere as good as what Art did, but, hey, Art keeps doing his serial retiring thing.  It's the best we have.  What's the alternative at 3:00am?  On open line nights (Fridays) I do tune out.

Speaking of Art and how good he was, longtime listeners know that the Art after about 1997 or so was nothing like the Art before that.  I started listening in late 1992 and from then to Art's first retirement (1998) was the best of vintage Art.  After that he changed.  So many personal tragedies and other things went on in his life.  Oklahoma City he took personally.  Hale-Bopp and the Heaven's Gate suicides he took personally too.  He became much more sensitive to criticism. The whole thing involving his son.  The slander lawsuit.  All these things and probably even more that we don't know about happened one right after another.  That's when Art started retiring.  He was never as good again.  Not even now.

[Michael Vandeven]

techster, i agree with about 90% of what you've said here.  below are some of my previous thoughts on the matter, posted at UFOShip:

I have received a few emails asking about the seemingly conspicuous absence of any commentary on this page regarding Art Bell's most recent retirement. I didn't hear the show in which he made the announcement (yet), but I hear it was delivered with that now-familiar unexpectedness we've all come to know and love over the last 7 years or so. I must say I'm very non-plussed by it all.

When Art left the air the first time for a couple of weeks, I was really disappointed by it all, especially when he was temporarily replaced by Hilly Rose, a disaster with shoes. Then he came back. I was thrilled. Then he left again. I was disappointed... again... and the replacement host sucked goat balls... again... in the form of Mike Siegel. Then art Came back almost a year later. Again. I was Thrilled. Again. Then Art left... again... because of his back. I was disappointed... again. However, something changed after that retirement. I stopped caring. It became clear to me that this was a poor emotional investment I was making. Art's cycle of retirements and triumphant returns put his audience on an emotional roller coaster that apparently continues to this day. And it would seem Art doesn't care. If he doesn't, why should I? While I respect Art immensely and wish him the best, I must say that at this point, I really don't care if he comes or goes as it relates to Coast to Coast AM. The show is NOT what it used to be. Even when Art himself was behind the mic in recent memory, it wasn't the same. His heart isn't in it anymore.

I believe Art has made the right move. He has been carrying George Noory's dead weight around long enough, and it's time for him to leave and stay away. His continued involvement only provided false cover, in my opinion, for the weakness of Coast to Coast by keeping an audience involved where they otherwise wouldn't waste their time. Now we will start seeing affiliates dropping like flies and the emperor's lack of clothing will be revealed to all I believe.

Art should go sailing, in a figurative sense. He has a new beautiful wife with a baby now, and it's just as well that they enjoy each other and make the most of the time they have together. The past is gone, and we should stop trying to hold on to it for the sake of nostalgia.

I started this stream because I wanted to provide an outlet for people like me who remember how it was listening to Art in the 1990s. Looks like it's going to get a lot of use now. Tell your friends about it. I guess I'm contradicting the above paragraph.

i consider art to be one of the greatest broadcasters of the 20th century.  but let's face it.  the time has come and gone, and even if he does come back, snoory will always be in the picture to muck things up, and art's not going to be 100% interested in the show as he once was.  however, unlike a lot of people out there, i can't suffer through snoory just to stay in touch with the genre.  the only alternatives are boring shows that put you to sleep hosted by extremists who believe george bush personally flew the planes into the trade center.  so what can i say.  we're screwed.  the only thing to do is have fun complaining about it.

[techster]

I can agree with all that.  After he "retired" twice I knew that Art really didn't want to continue doing Coast.  The old Art, pre-1996, was on the air 5 hours a night and sometimes even 6 hours if he decided that he wanted to do an extra hour for the west coast.  He worked every holiday, Christmas, New Years, 4th of July, whatever.  Plus he did 3 more hours on Sundays on Dreamland.  He loved being behind the microphone and on the air.  He couldn't get enough of it.  It seemed obvious that you don't go from there to quitting twice unless you've lost that love of what you do.  I think it became hell for him.  While he wanted out, obviously there was something that has kept him involved so that the program didn't go down the tubes without him.  Maybe he has an ownership interest in it so it's in his best interests financially to help out.  Who knows.

I found it interesting when George said a couple of months ago that he's never met Art Bell.  I think he said that they have only talked on the phone once.

George is George.  He's no Art Bell that's for sure.  He's not very bright either.  But as poor a replacement for Art as he is, no one else has shown, overall, an ability to do any better.  If the network had somebody that could do it better and draw a bigger audience, they'd be doing it.

[ArtBellFan]

techster Art did 5 hours until 2002, that changed sometime than, not pre 96 and btw apparently George said he met Art and in fact went to see him and they had lunch which was a lie, the only time they met was at the Lifetime Achievement Awards in L.A. about a year or so ago when Art was honored. I heard Art mention also on ham not only had they never met before that, they had never talked on the phone either.

[techster]

It was when Noory took over on a permanent basis that they went to the 10:00pm to 2:00am (Pacific time) format.  When I first started listening in the early 90s the show went from 11:00pm to 4:00am.  IIRC it was when Clear Channel bought it that they went to 10:00pm to 3:00am which is what it stayed until George took over.

It really isn't important except to make the point that in the early 90s Art loved doing the show and couldn't get enough of it.  What other talk show ever went for 5 hours?  Not only was he doing it for 5 hours, and once in awhile 6, but he was doing it with enthusiasm.  The point is also that by 1999 Art kept quitting and I knew he had enough.  The fun had clearly gone out of it for him.  Even now when he fills in he's much more subdued.  Not the same Art. 

[Charles]

Can anyone tell the difference between these two pictures and there ability to interview on the fly?


Image #1


Image #2

If you guessed the Image #2 ... pat yourself on the back.

If you guessed Image #1 ... well we are very sorry and have some wonderful parting gifts for you.

[nirvanix]

1) George has never asserted his own popularity as far as I've ever heard. He does often revere Art in his comments.
2) George is certainly not the intellectual equivalent of Art, and he knows it himself as well as anybody.
3) Guess what? The guests on the show LIKE George. He lets them have their say without trashing them (unlike Ian). George doesn't always agree with the theories of his guests, but he is very gracious none the less - and that's the way a good radio interviewer should be. Do you remember the era of ladies and gentlemen? You don't have to be a caustic little puke to be popular.
4) George's comments are tangential sometimes - so fucking what - lighten up and laugh at it. I'm sure George would laugh right along with you.
5) Hey Art, not everybody likes cats. If I counted up the hours that I've listened to Art go on about cats it would surpass the amount of time spent listening to George's tangential comments! Do I care - no I take it in stride.
6) This I do care about:  Art is very militaristic. He talks  often about America 'beating'  somebody else in war. His intellect cannot penetrate his narrow-mindedness about what these wars are really about. These wars are not started to be won, they are started to make money. Period.
He often says things like 'They want to kill us', and by THEY he means those scary dark-skinned people in the middle-east. And yes, 'We better kill them before they kill us'. I bet he doesn't have a single Arab friend. I have many. 'They' don't want to kill you Art, even after your country goes in and installs a puppet dictator to suppress them while you leech all their resources. His way of talking about this stuff is such a grave disservice to the world and that's why I'm glad he's not on the air anymore. As much as I've loved some of his shows and his keen insights, it was time for this guy to move on and enjoy family life.

As for you people. This is a pointless website isn't it? George is not going away, so you may as well find another radio program to listen to. Or go out and get drunk and laid. I think some of you need it. A lot.

[EvB]

As for you people. This is a pointless website isn't it? George is not going away, so you may as well find another radio program to listen to. Or go out and get drunk and laid. I think some of you need it. A lot.

Nope - not pointless at all - we vent - and have fun doing it.  I seriously doubt anyone thinks we'll get rid of George.

That said - WELCOME! - your post was intelligent, well written and well laid out. Opposing points of view ARE welcome!

Please note - I'm the one who started this "George doesn't EXACTLY suck" thread, and I do listen.

Ev

Who ain't nobody around here 'cept another poster.

[Michael Vandeven]

As for you people. This is a pointless website isn't it? George is not going away, so you may as well find another radio program to listen to. Or go out and get drunk and laid. I think some of you need it. A lot.

i just typed a brilliant reply to the political content of your post, but i lost it.  piss.  anyway, let me say this about the above quote...

to say this site is pointless or seeks to remove snoors as the host of c2c is a complete failure on your part to understand the nature of what we're doing here.  we're simply a bunch of people complaining about something and making fun of a mediocre talk show host.  period.

if this site were entitled OreoCookiesSuck.com, would you conclude it is our intention to halt production of oreo cookies?  the very notion is absurd.

complaining and talking shit sometimes is JUST THAT... complaining and talking shit, as they say on the street.  dawg.  i don't care if george stays for the next 30 years or gets arrested tomorrow in some sort of asian prostitution ring.  doesn't affect me at all, and even if he did leave, what would replace him?  maybe a paper-clip dispenser, if we're lucky. 

i have to confess something here.  i don't want george to leave.  if he were to do so, it would steal from us YEARS of commentary and interaction regarding possibly the most inadequate talk show host since the inception of the radio medium.  if he pulled a harry chapin, we would be forced to sit around for about 9 months talking about how we all liked the rodent living under his nose and how it really gave him something of a personal flare.  you know... enough time has to pass first.

i get laid and my wife is hot.  have you seen her?  i don't live in my grandmother's basement, and i'm not stalking any musicians.

one quick note about your political commentary... i agree with 90% of art's thoughts in this matter.  forget why we're in iraq.  we're there and we had BETTER win there.  to fail will give birth to decades of utter disaster.  there are people in this world who want to kill americans.  however, i don't fear them.  your mathematical likelihood of dying in a terrorist attack is dwarfed PROFOUNDLY by the likelihood you'll die of the flu.

oh... and i'm a muslim.  so is my wife.  just to up the ante, she's also arab. 

cue andrew dice clay:  OH!!

[PhantasticSanShiSan]

  cue andrew dice clay:  OH!!

HAHAHAHA.........***behind the neck cigarette shift!*** "BALLS ACROSS THE NOSE!"

[EvB]

i get laid and my wife is hot.  have you seen her?  i don't live in my grandmother's basement, and i'm not stalking any musicians.

one quick note about your political commentary... i agree with 90% of art's thoughts in this matter.  forget why we're in iraq.  we're there and we had BETTER win there.  to fail will give birth to decades of utter disaster.  there are people in this world who want to kill americans.  however, i don't fear them.  your mathematical likelihood of dying in a terrorist attack is dwarfed PROFOUNDLY by the likelihood you'll die of the flu.

oh... and i'm a muslim.  so is my wife.  just to up the ante, she's also arab. 

cue andrew dice clay:  OH!!

Just a couple of comments here -

1)  Being a heterosexual female - I don't know from hot when it comes to your wife.  HOWEVER - I do know GORGEOUS when i see it, no matter what the package.  So - hell yes - she is.

2)  Though I understand the "in for a penny, in for a pound" mentality re: Iraq - MY fear is that what is going on there is an eternal disaster - PERIOD.  I'm not sure we can fix that.  If we do , it won't come primarily from military might (I wish I could quote names and actual words - but as I recall a couple of hot-shot generals would agree with me, at least about the "other than military might" stuff)

Here is the problem as I see it:  We are dealing with a culture of people who are understandably resentful about countless things - some I think are legit, some I don't - but that's me.  Just as with Viet-Nam - we're dealing with people who have absolutely no intention of giving up.   Their attitudes about the sacrifices involved are very different form ours (but you, Michael, would know more about that than I) But fanatics & fundamentalists - of any stripe - are like that. 

Most of all - IF we stay - we damed well better start treating our military a whole lot better than we do.  Our support of them, before, after, and during their tours, is disgraceful.  It makes me feel ashamed. AND it says something pretty ugly about the motivations of the people in power here in the US.

Okay - those are the basic points form my POV.

[vincentminei]

Hi man. This is Art bell's son Vincent. Alrighty, george is not exactly Art. george just doesn't have the savvy that my ole man has. though i'm not a fan of my father as a father i will say that as an interviewer
Art knows his shit and does his research. he has the perfect "am radio" voice. all smooth and insinuating.
his voice gets under your skin. art has a real talent in getting people to talk about the secrets they know.
for all you novices who don't know me i'm art's unacknowledged son he kept secret(with my beloved yourger sister lisa). i also discovered i have a (half) brother. i've been in contact with my bro and i'm happy to say that my long lost bro and i have been reunited. we are the best of friends. i've always wanted a brother and i couln't be happier. he's the best. i tried with art sr. but the truth is that he wants nothing to do with lisa and i. he shows no interest in our lives. the truth is art sr. cheated on my mom and many other ex-wives. deep down i know that art sr. is clearly a text book sociopath. he feels no remorse for having abandoned three children. the man has no humanity within him. maybe he did once but
i'll i can see is the empty vessel within his soul. no concience. sorry i got on my soapbox their for a minute.
if google "LOST IN SPACE" BY STEVE VOLK YOU CAN GET THE REST OF THE STORY. YOU'LL GET THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH. ART SR. BEGGED ME NOT TO RUN THE STORY BECAUSE MY BROTHER WOULD BE HURT BY IT...REALLY IT WAS ART SR. BEING SELFISH. ART SR. WAS MORE WORRIED ABOUT WHAT IT WOULD DO TO HIS REPUTATION WITH HIS FANS. HE'S LUCKY THAT THE AP WIRE DIDN'T PICK THIS STORY UP.
ANYWHORE. THAT'S IT. THANKS FOR LISTENING EVERYONE. ART SR. AND I WON'T BE TALKING ANYMORE.
SPREAD THE WORD DUDES ABOUT "LOST IN SPACE". AS LAURIE ANDESON(OR WAS THAT BURROUGHS?) ONCE SAID..."LANGUAGE IS A VIRUS". SPREAD THE WORD.                                     CIAO.

[Michael Vandeven]

hi vincent.  have you and your brother gotten together yet?  or are you just talking via phone/email?

for those who aren't clear, the brother to which vincent refers is art's son who was involved in a crisis in the late 90s which prompted art to leave the air.

[Michael Vandeven]

Most of all - IF we stay - we damed well better start treating our military a whole lot better than we do.  Our support of them, before, after, and during their tours, is disgraceful.  It makes me feel ashamed. AND it says something pretty ugly about the motivations of the people in power here in the US.

Okay - those are the basic points form my POV.

holy shit i couldn't agree more.
firstly, i'm tired of hearing about our soldiers being court martialed.  our government sends them there to kill people and break things, and then when they do it, we start hearing the words "court martial" bandied about the news.  ridiculous.  i understand if some animal rapes an iraqi girl and murders her family before setting the house ablaze, he must be dealt with harshly and swiftly.  no problem there.  it's the other cases i'm referring to where soldiers are in legal trouble for arguably legitimate actions taken during the course of their duties.  our government takes these soldiers lives and dangles them over a vat of acid as their family watches from the sidelines wondering if they're ever going to see their loved one outside of a jail cell.  so much for serving your country.

additionally... how about this, US govt...  STOP PROMISING COLLEGE TO PEOPLE IF YOU'RE NOT GOING TO PONY UP THE DOUGH!!  lying assholes. 

[PhantasticSanShiSan]

What's up Vincent.

[EvB]

though i'm not a fan of my father as a father i will say that as an interviewer
Art knows his shit and does his research. he has the perfect "am radio" voice. all smooth and insinuating.
his voice gets under your skin. art has a real talent in getting people to talk about the secrets they know.
for all you novices who don't know me i'm art's unacknowledged son he kept secret(with my beloved yourger sister lisa).

the truth is art sr. cheated on my mom and many other ex-wives. deep down i know that art sr. is clearly a text book sociopath. he feels no remorse for having abandoned three children. the man has no humanity within him. maybe he did once but all i can see is the empty vessel within his soul. no conscience. sorry i got on my soapbox their for a minute.

if google "LOST IN SPACE" BY STEVE VOLK YOU CAN GET THE REST OF THE STORY. YOU'LL GET THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH. ART SR. BEGGED ME NOT TO RUN THE STORY BECAUSE MY BROTHER WOULD BE HURT BY IT...REALLY IT WAS ART SR. BEING SELFISH. ART SR. WAS MORE WORRIED ABOUT WHAT IT WOULD DO TO HIS REPUTATION WITH HIS FANS. HE'S LUCKY THAT THE AP WIRE DIDN'T PICK THIS STORY UP.
ANYWHORE. THAT'S IT. THANKS FOR LISTENING EVERYONE. ART SR. AND I WON'T BE TALKING ANYMORE.
SPREAD THE WORD DUDES ABOUT "LOST IN SPACE". AS LAURIE ANDESON(OR WAS THAT BURROUGHS?) ONCE SAID..."LANGUAGE IS A VIRUS". SPREAD THE WORD.                                     CIAO.

Hey Vincent   and WELCOME!   I truly hope you will be a regular.

I want you to know how very much I admire your ability to separate Art's talent as a broadcaster form his (lack of) talents as a dad - I sure hope he's grown up enough to do right by Asia - though that's no help to you, your Mother or your siblings, 1/2 or otherwise. 

You should know I am a single parent who conceived, though out of wedlock - with clear intent - and that my son's Dad has been a mediocre uncle at best. - so I know a little about what you have gone through.  (clearly, no specifics, and not all - every situation is different.)  - as a total aside - let me say A) Would i make the same choice again? NOT ON YOUR LIFE!  B) Am I glad I was naive enough to make it when I did? ABSOLUTELY - my son is the light of my life and I have every reason to be proud of him. (A grown man now, just short of 22)

Whatever you were deprived of during your upbringing - you seem to have made something fine and solid of yourself - if for no other reason than your ability to be rational while discussing Art and the rest of his family.

Thanks for posting.  Hope to hear from you early and often.

[Max]

for those who aren't clear, the brother to which vincent refers is art's son who was involved in a crisis in the late 90s which prompted art to leave the air.

am clear about what was told on the air

what I want to know is the other part of the story that did not make the air.

[EvB]

additionally... how about this, US govt...  STOP PROMISING COLLEGE TO PEOPLE IF YOU'RE NOT GOING TO PONY UP THE DOUGH!!  lying assholes. 

Yeah - I, and some classmates from the student government, had a LOT of fun messing with the baby marine recruiting staff.  I started at a community college - and they'd come to campus with all this smoke and mirrors about how the nest 2 - 3 years would be ALL PAID FOR - just sign on the dotted line. They were sweet kids (and they were kids - they deliberately sent they youngsters to "relate" to the typical CC crowd)

WE set up a booth right beside theirs with a banner saying THEY LIE ! - with pamphlets about how the GI bill REALLY worked and all the pitfalls.  We also had a number of veterans on our staff to give people the down-low. AND all kinds of into re: alternative finaicing.  Our intention, and a clearly stated one, was NEVER to turn people off to the military as a career - only to clarify what was actually up on the military as a means to higher education.  Got those poor little marines (who, without exception in my experience, were sincere and charming young men who believed what they said) all confuzled.  Nothing we said or did was anti-military in the usual sense - only the nitty gritty RE: the GI bill.

I usually don't enjoy disillitioning the young an sincere - but i gotta tell you - this particular project was a hoot.

The point of the project was never to disrespect the military as a career or even as just "do your time and move on- only to help clarify the realities of a temporary military stint as a mean to another end. Our primary "go to" person was a young woman who had done her bit with the army - a black women -which I mention only because they so often offer the earth, moon and starts to minorities,  who had returned to the civilian life with as husband, two pre-school children - and NONE of the support to build a future they had promised her. one other was a single white male who was an Ari force Reserve MP - who kept getting called away for all kinds of MP duty, both in our area and in Afghanistan. Only to find his GI bill administrator less than understanding about how his academic career had been interrupted.  Keep in mind this intelligent, helpful, and charming our man was struggling with this BS between 2003 and 2005.  HELL YES those wee particularly difficult years for the US military - but that is NO EXCUSE for messing with an honors student who, in all sincerity, only wanted to do his bit for his country and then settle down to a career in electronics.

Last I knew his had been deployed to Afghanistan (he usually just did MP duty at local reserve bases) and I've no idea what happened to him. 

On Topic:  Anyone know anything about GNs military career?  Was he, maybe, Navy? 

My personal take on service is that EACH AND EVERY AMERICAN - male, female, and undecided - (if we enact the law now we'd have to cut it off at a certain age to start and ease it in for those were not planning on it) - these things tend to work bet for the young, or in the case of elder Corps, the retired) should be required - THEIR CHOICE to do some kind of service to the nation and/or world.  The should be able to choose military, Peace Corps, Vista. Elder Corps or some kind of organized system of service. My ballpark on the required term would be two years.

This requirement should be discussed in public mid-elementary (3rd or 4th grade) through High School.  AND - if these kids choose to perform this service b4 they are done with college - some clearly defined incentive to continue their education should be included.

SOAPBOX/off

[PhantasticSanShiSan]

"YOU COMMIE PINKO" - Archie Bunker, 

[Evil Twin Of Zen]

Yeah - I, and some classmates from the student government, had a LOT of fun messing with the baby marine recruiting staff.  I started at a community college - and they'd come to campus with all this smoke and mirrors about how the nest 2 - 3 years would be ALL PAID FOR - just sign on the dotted line. They were sweet kids (and they were kids - they deliberately sent they youngsters to "relate" to the typical CC crowd)....................

I didn't join for the paid education [the old GI Bill where it was ALL paid for] and when I do recommend the military service to those considering it, I make it clear that they shouldn't be joining for the college education.... but to ALWAYs get put into their contract ANYTHING promised.... ie... military schooling, etc. I also tell them to take advantage of any military schooling offered while in the service. As an example, the medical schooling I got in service schools had nothing to do with my primary mission status, but it paid off in many other ways later in my education... not to mention great chances to fill various mission positions when medical personnel were not available as aircrew. Other schools provided the same opportunity in other fields.
The various branches of the military service serve purdy much a single function and [IMHO] should not be joined for reasons other than the primary mission of that branch of service. For me personally, I hold in higher regard the honor of serving with some of the finest people I have ever known in conditions and situations unexpected.
I know the condition of the current GI Bill and other benefits are NOT being managed as they should be... main reason I won't visit a VA hospital for other than the ongoing programs I'm involved in... those places can kill ya [even though the stats for civilian medical care are not much better in that regard]. The men and women that have seen action should be given priority when it comes to the Defense budget... before some greedy contractor. I've seen the detail of much of the budget being spent [it's a public record btw] and I can tell you that a great deal of money is wasted in support areas that a contractor is filling where trained military should have been placed.

I agree on many [not all] of your points and think it was a good post. Thanks.

[cthulhubunny]

AS LAURIE ANDESON(OR WAS THAT BURROUGHS?) ONCE SAID..."LANGUAGE IS A VIRUS". SPREAD THE WORD.[/quote]

It was Burroughs.

Anderson just turned it into a "song". sort of. A

Incidentally - the report about Art's estranged children is here: http://www.philadelphiaweekly.com/articles/14998
It isn't exactly uplifting, but it doesn't make me "hate" Art or anything.
We all have skeletons in the closet and I for one did plenty of selfish and stupid things when I was in my early 20s (like marrying young and for the wrong reasons).

[EvB]

Incidentally - the report about Art's estranged children is here: http://www.philadelphiaweekly.com/articles/14998
It isn't exactly uplifting, but it doesn't make me "hate" Art or anything.
We all have skeletons in the closet and I for one did plenty of selfish and stupid things when I was in my early 20s (like marrying young and for the wrong reasons).

We all do dumb things.  Obviously - I don't and can't know all the details - but one thing Art did say about it (sorry, can't recall my source and this is a paraphrase) was that once his former wife had remarried - he deliberately stayed away (which doesn't excuse anything that happened previous to that) to avoid confusing the children.  That was a very common attitude and practice for men in his generation, and was usually seen as "the right thing to do."

These days, with open adoption, blended families, and all -- things are very different.